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Trophy Bucks Typical

Should This Buck Have Been Scored as the Largest Typical Ever?

by North American Whitetail Online Staff   |  April 24th, 2012 32

The final scoring for the Johnny King buck has been debated heavily throughout the whitetail world. In this Big Buck Profile video, Gordon Whittington breaks down how the deer was officially scored and also how if scored in another way, it could have gone down as the largest typical ever.

What do you think? Should it have been scored differently?


 

RELATED READ: The Johnny King Buck: The What “If” Wisconsin Legend



 

  • ChadM

    Gordon…I wonder if scored as a 6 x 6, how many would cry foul due to the beam's separation from bullet. The argument could be made that 1/8 had been gained and who knows what else. What a deer though, these photos do NOT do it justice!

  • f.j.

    Remember that 213 6/8 score came after over 5 years of shrinking. Originally it was over 215 net typ. I have talked to many, many B&C scorers on this deer and to a man they say its typical. The ones that are saying no most have never held the antlers just pics.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bigboyscustomcalls1 Robert Dills

    Looks like a typical to me That is a hell of a deer!!

    • glenn

      I think both boone&crockett and pope&young scoring is bad add up total inches no deductions but still can have typical and non-typical.

  • Tim Brown

    The King deer is the king of the typicals & is the #1 all time boone & crockett !!!

  • truth seeker

    If the left side of the King buck would have been found as a shed and submitted to NASHC does any one think that it would be scored as a Non Typical? That its G3 is a non typical point? Yet to remain consistent BC had to diem it a Non Typical point because it orientates in the same fashion as the matching apposing G3 on the right side, therefore if one believes that the G3 on the left is a Typical point one must also conclude that its mate on the right is the same Why? because by assigning the left G3 as non typical for constancy BC is saying both points are the same, correct? Only difference is one is longer and one is shorter thus the normal asymmetry deduction would apply. I call this an inconstant constancy.

  • Scott Hall

    Looks like he'd be a typical to me. I think Mr. King is being robbed of his place at the top of the record books by this buck being scored as a non-typical.

  • https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=832599045 Ian Eckerstorfer

    https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=327682… held it in my hands its a shame that they can let it be panel scored!

  • d.j. stinson

    new world record in my book ! i agree with truth seeker, dont call one typical and one non- typical there the same one's longer than the other! we need some one in b&c without corrective lenses

  • Jon Summerville

    I went through the same thing with my buck, Scored 167 with very minor deductions, But B&C says being his G2's are forked on both sides its a point on a point and a deduction. so basically my buck scored 147 because it was scored as a 10 point but deducted as a 12 point. So I can see the problem here . But still a buck to be proud of and will probably get the notoriety it deserves.

  • Herb

    common sense, it's a G-3 on both sides!! Great Buck!

  • Guest

    By B&Cs own definition of a typical point, it's a typical point. It is in a difinitive row, originates on the top of the main beam, AND has an opposing match. I have held the real antlers, and can say for sure that the deer should be scored as a typical. Perhaps B&C should reveiw every entery and adjust similar cases accordingly. That would only be fair.

  • Truth Seeker

    I have more or less stood in the side lines and watched and listened to much of the debate on the King buck and have been privy to much inside information, first the argument was the G2 and G3 had a common base issue, then it evolved to a issue of an out of sequence point , now it has become a discussion that assigns the right side G3 as a Non Typical point because it sits on a shelf and does not originate in the dead center of the main beam. Recently a high ranking BC official quoted the MEASURING AND SCORING NORTH AMERICAN BIG GAME TROPHIES third edition scoring manual on page 41 on the far right margin Figure 6-0* There are instances where a single point comes off the top INSIDE EDGE of the main beam and is considered an abnormal point (E)
    The drawing provided to illustrate the text above shows a tine originating of the inside of the main beam not the top and leaning forward and to the inside of the rack this in know way comes close to G3 as grown on the King buck. I invite all who question this to purchase a copy of this manual and see for yourself. So how does BC deal with this problem? You up date the rule, so in the latest RECORDS OF NORTH AMERICAN BIGT GAME 13th edition on page 748 upper left corner there are to new illustrations that specifically address the G3 as grown on the Johnny King buck, problem, the King buck was harvested in Nov. of 2006 the new rule was first shown in print in aforementioned record book published in Sep 2011. Can one see the pattern developing here? Do we now pluck out the King buck and apply a new rule written some five years latter to this deer? Or to be consistent go back and apply all new rules to all previous bucks?Does not the fact that a new rule that specifically is tailored to fit the growth of the right side G3 on the King buck prove that no previous rule would apply? It has become sad and disappointing to see such a great club as BC stoop to such a low grade of politics. It doesn't matter what I think or what an official scorer thinks for what BC thinks, what matters is the scoring manual fairly and accurately applied to this deer?

  • f.j

    I would never have thought B&C would stoop this low as to start using their records book as a tool for an agenda like this! Still is a very good scoring system, just being run in a questionable way. Lets just keep pissing on Dr. Phil wright. You guys should be proud. If I was some of you I would hope to god I never had a mirror in my house because of what I would see in it.

  • dc240nt

    I think we need to go an "occupy" the B&C building. B&C is disgracing themselves all over north america with this deer. I have personally posted it on several websites, both in the States and Canada, there arent to many who agree with B&C, but everyone does agree that it needs to be panel scored by a group of unbiased measurers. However, I feel it is to late, as the B&C club has almost all the offical measurers cowering in a corner with their tails tucked. The measurers are owned by the club, and the club is using scare tactics to keep the measurers away from this deer. Every officer and director within that club needs to be held accountable.

  • Jeff

    Based on all the debating / skeptacisim I don't understand why B & C wouldn't want to collaborate and put together a unbiased panel of scorers and give the King Buck it's credit if credit is due. Maybe it's because… if ever rescored by a panel of unbiased judges it could have the potential to mess up a lot of past scores and would call for a reprint of the B & C Score Entrys and Official Score Books?

  • kev

    I think we have a new world record buck. B&C needs to pull there heads out of there you know what and score this buck as a typical.This is what i say theres been two world record bucks killed in the state of wis.

  • Jamie

    Been alot of monster bucks who's score have been butchered in this manner. The biggest typicals are way too far down on the list, and again heres another, and now it looks political, sad.

  • john kelly

    i have seen the buck in person and all i have to say is records are mayed to be broken and in my book it is a typical. it is a great buck how ever u look at him.

  • f.j

    This just in Ron Boucher and Craig Cousins have been fired by B&C for voicing an opinion on the King Buck. These guys are two of the best Whitetail scorers in the World. Fired for asking for the deer to at least get looked at in person by B&C Rules committee. Many other scorers have also been put on notice to never look at or speak of this again. Nice job B&C! Your a stand up club that represents the animal !

  • Jeff

    Once a buck is scored by B&C can the hunter have the record pulled from their score records?

  • f.j

    Yes they can. B&C has re-scored many trophys in the past to right a rong.

  • timbuck

    I was there when it was scored at 180. When I asked the scorer why he was counting the point as abnormal, he replied, Its what I was told to score it at. We were then told not to talk about the possible world record. When Ron Boucher and Craig Cousins are fired for just simply voicing their opinion on how it should be scored, that tells me it s all political ,and has nothing to do with doing the right thing. It seems to me that they want this great buck to just go away. B&C just lost 2 very respected men. I think they also lost integrity as a club. There will be plenty of people pulling their entries.

  • GrandView

    There's some revisionist history going on here. When originally scored, before any review by B&C, Johnny King was told the buck was unlikely to be a new record. He was told that the G3's were likely to be scored as abnormal points. (By rule the right G3 being abnormal results in the left G3 being abnormal)

    This is from a previous article ON THIS VERY SITE……"However, the official measurer was quick to tell Johnny that the Boone and Crockett Club might not accept all 12 points as typical tines. The measurer was afraid that the G-3s might be scored as abnormal points." Nobody was blindsided by an arbitrary ruling by B&C.

    There were two scorers that examined that rack before it was reviewed by B&C in Pennsylvania……..the scorer of record, and another scorer whose opinion was asked by the scorer of record. They are both WBBC and B&C scorers.

    Thus far, NEITHER OF THESE MEN HAVE BEEN INTERVIEWED FOR ANY OF THE MANY STORIES ABOUT THIS TROPHY. This story has been run by Deer & Deer Hunting, the owner/promoter of the rack, and some scorers whose motivation is cloudy at best. The scorer who reviewed the original score is on record as saying the final score was the same way the scorer of record scored the rack prior to it being reviewed by B&C.

    11 months ago B&C publicly stated in unambiguous terms what the ruling was for the left G3 being abnormal. Thus far there has been zero refutation of that ruling………by anybody. I don't know what the reasons were for Boucher and Cousins being released from their B&C scoring positions. To my knowledge it hasn't been made public. However, they have been part of a consistent denigration of B&C and its personnel. And Boucher contravened a B&C rule by submitting a secondary score for the trophy. That's the very definition of score shopping.

    The trophy was scored correctly by procedure and rule. That is the official position of both WBBC and B&C.

  • Jay

    O.K Grand View, you are the all knowing all telling. HEE HEE HEEE!

  • GrandView

    It's all public record, owner/promoter.

    (I see you finally did get your court date, however.)

  • Jay

    So I called Ashley and asked him shat he thought about the King Buck. He answered " Hello Buck and Bear" I said "Is this Steve Ashley?" He said "yes" I introduced myself, and Steve said " I am no longer a member of Buck and Bear." Isaid "thats o.k I am trying to get the truth of what happened with the King Buck and this was a good chance for you to let me know, sence no one has ever talked to you about it before." He hung up the phone! What a tool. First why would you answer Hello Buck and Bear when he knew was OUT! Second why hang up? He took the COWARDS way out! Also I have called Buck Buckner at B&C to try and talk to him, at this time no response. You guys can say what you want about them being fed up and all, but that would be a fib, because they run and run and run from this and yet 6 years laterHAVE NEVER SAW THE DEER!

  • w.s

    I have scored plenty of deer for others. I think the F-tards who are denying this is a typical,should probably be scoring little league baseball games. The B&C club is a club for what? I think any animal should be given full credit for what it has anyway. Nature made them trophy class animals. Im sorry but the way hunting has gotten in the past 25yrs. Is well kind of not a past time anymore. Its filled with bs artists making fat bank on outdoor sports that I have enjoyed most of my life. And I feel the B&C has turned into favoritism and political bs'ers. There will never be a scorecard on any of the trophies I have on my wall or trophy class animals in the future i'm fortunate enough to take. After seeing this more than a few times. With state or local big buck clubs.Other than B&C. Why bother? I know if I was getting shafted by one of these clubs. Put the animal in the trophy room and share it with friends and family, and tell the record keepers to piss off!

  • kyboy

    it was said that milo hanson and his "group" offered big money to the last buck of this caliber to keep him out of the record book and didnt even want the public knowing of its existence , anyone remember the rampola buck. b&c was shady about that buck from the beginning and once again the king buck, i believe the money aquired by the current record holder has blocked the amazing bucks that have since been harvested from taking the numbere one spot. An absolute shame, but yet another sad example of how the commercial aspect of our great sport is also detroying it. The typical world record has been broken, twice! When are we going to stop letting world class trophies get Deducted down to average. Its time we revise our scoring systems and give so many the credit they deserve, a perfect rack is nice, but perfectly symmetrical racks represent a tiny fraction of the bucks we love to hunt and score. An overwhelming majority of hunters are not happy with the current system b&c uses when it comes to the scoring of trophy deer, no doubt there should be typical and non-typical catagories but deducting slight inperfections in a rack is ludacris in the real world.

  • Jeff

    A buck should be scored for what it is and not for what it should've or could've been. I know of guys who have taken hammers to non typical points because of the deductions that they'll get when scoring. Now that's an absolute shame! To file down points to match in length and then spend hours rubbing on trees? Yeah, I say it's time for a different scoring system that has the respect of the hunting population. Or let's not score anything that is not five years old or older! We do that… then you'll start to see records fall like dominos in just a few short years.

  • btr183

    Gordon, I'm surprised your editors didn't call you in on title of this article. "Should this buck be scored as the largest typical ever?" Largest as opposed to what? Smallest? Mediocre? Read the headline again. Read it once more. It doesn't make sense. It should have read, "Should this buck be scored as a typical or non-typical?" The headline suggests this is THE LARGEST TYPICAL EVER which is not the case. There are many MORE bucks with MUCH larger racks than the King Buck. Just say'n.

  • Tom

    Could be that B&C is considering the weight of public opinion to the cost of potential litigation with Milo Hansen, whose already made (by his own estimate $600,000 http://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/gallery/hunting… and might look to sue over damages?
    I believe:
    1. the King Buck and it's G-3's should be recognized as a typical, 2. That the 2006 measurements should be used and 3. The buck should be scored under the same rule structure as 2006.

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